I had short hair then

Just don't confuse wheel torque with engine torque. Wheel torque is the key of course since that's the end result.

For ONE GIVEN gear ratio, yes, the engine's torque peak will match peak torque at the wheels. But if you were to change to a shorter ratio whilst acheiving the same speed, the engine would be turning faster and past it's torque peak, but in any normal situation (read: realistic engine curves) your wheel torque will be higher due to greater torque multiplication from gearing. Hence you want to be near peak power at vMax since you're taking advantage of using the shortest gear possible before the engine's torque begins to REALLY take a dive to the point where more multiplication through gearing would be irrelevant.

I see what you're saying though. In the context of the previous definition of the word "powerband" though I had nightmares of Jarmenia tuning each shift to land near the torque peak :scared:

edit: I still think that's what he was indirectly asking or pondering - if that's the case - don't do that!

Jarmenia, remember wheel torque is what matters. Consider the result of whatever torque the engine is generating being multiplied by the reduction gearing of the transmission / differential.

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Mon 28 Apr 2008, 16:51.

I couldn't help myself

Quote from gezmoor :

That's not the same thing as tyre wall deformation though. I know that tyre load is modeled, (but how exactly that affects the handling I don't know). But as far as I know, the actual tyre walls stiffness and resistance to deformation etc isn't modeled.

We've alreaday established that rolling resistance / fuel consumption goes up with lower pressures, so that's a reasonable argument that it's modelled. To what degree is anyone's guess.

Quote from jarmenia :

Thanks for the info. So to go a step further. Once I know the powerband, when I shift, I'm going to want the next gear to drop me at the low end of the power band again correct?

Quote from AndroidXP :

Yes, that would be the optimal case, though it might not be always possible for every car and every gearbox. However, that's not a disadvantage, since everybody suffers the same bad car design then

@AXP
That's misleading, if it was true you would use linear gearing as mentioned above. There has to be a comprimise between using the torque multiplication of the transmission/differential vs increased resistances like you mentioned above, which as you already said is why we need non linear gearing in every case. Or did I misinterpret that?

Quote from dropin_biking :

Ehh..damn Americans How do you find the people of Alberta BBT? My family went to Red Deer last summer and I thought it was a pretty chill place to reside. Never found any hippies though haha
~Bryan~

[necroreply]
I really like Alberta. The people are very friendly, and overall we have a pretty positive attitude and work ethic. BC I found quite a contrast, people were more often rude and indifferent... At least on the coast anyway, that's the only place in BC I've lived. Took me a while to get used it when I moved there. If something goes wrong, people will make an effort to help you here - whereas I found on the coast people would laugh, point, and continue on their way much more.
[/necroreply]

Quote from TheChad :

If you can hear a car, however you can't see a car, then it's not in front of you. Yep thats right it's behind you
I know it may be a hard concept to understand but trust me it's true

Since you're attracted to hard concepts, here's another brain rattling concept for your ponderings: is the car beside you or behind you? I suppose it's asking too much for you to be aware of the fact that front/rear imaging works -GASP- just like stereo imaging! Wow!

The point is real life does not have a 2 dimensional soundfield, neither should a simulator. I don't care about the limitations of a helmet and ear plugs. If you want to replicate that then wear them in front of your monitor for all I care, and then your physical appearance can match the stupidity of your unduly arrogant post.

FFS, The original comment that I made was that simracing can helping your driving skills - I never said anything else. I didn't say he raced the same car or track in the sim did I? (no I didn't)

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Fri 18 Apr 2008, 23:28.

Quote from ajp71 :

Obviously he had the ultimate track walk when they scanned the track in and was able to dissect it to bits in a way that you won't just driving it in RL or in a sim. I don't think we can exactly assume this is unbiased though, obviously he has a rather large interest in saying the sim helped him and did he do any testing, track days, racing schools (all of which Lime Rock offers and pretty extensive school/testing is required before entering Skip Barber as a novice) before hand?

Added to that some people are very very fast out of the box. There's was a story about somebody in Motorsport a while ago who didn't do karting (a driver who had potential but never really got anywhere whose name I can't remember) beating the lap record set by professional instructors by 2 seconds on his first day of getting in a racing car. Racing sims may help in some areas or they may even be a hindrance but there's no way of telling how good someone naturally is

Did you read the snippet? There was no scan back before N2003 was even made

And yes, as I said in the first place - maybe he's just a natural. But someone with that kind of talent is rare, and perhaps he also just happened to be a sim developer / math guru, perhaps he's just the best at everything in the world. (no he's not).

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Fri 18 Apr 2008, 23:27.

edit: @Sam, balls, I thought I could get away with not quoting

Yeah I want it to be great for sure, but I have no idea what to really expect. I do know a few things behind the scenes that make me excited about the end result, and I think it's tunnel vision to think that just because nKPro failed or other things have failed mean anything. First of all, none of those failures had previously written two of the best sims ever made. Whilst I may be naive expecting a great product, it's equally naive to think that Kaemmer is not capable of blowing us all away. And what's the deal with 42" screens? I don't get worried when I see Scawen's 3 20" CRTs! (IIRC), besides, most of that is all write off / capital expense anyway. I'm sure they are doing much more expensive and important things

Hey, that's really good for showing off the physics, good work.

Must be a Czech thing I guess

It could still use some editing but much of it is just excellent

LOL, smartass.

If you disprove that he set that record, you have a case. Innocent until proven guilty

If he did indeed set the record, then there is substance to it regardless of the rest.

edit: just so things are not taken out of context, here is the snippet. cannot paste from the stupid PDF, here's a JPG instead.

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Fri 18 Apr 2008, 21:06.

Indeed, and the point wasn't learning the track, or what caliber of competition had also run the same combo over those years. The point is developing driving ability and skill - which since he's not a real life competitor should be zilch according to many opinions here. Whether it made him a driving god or just "better than he should be given his experience level" is debatable; the fact that it made him better is not and that's the point.

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Fri 18 Apr 2008, 19:40.

As far as sim racing developing real driving skills, I was amazed to learn that David Kaemmer set a lap record (in real life) in a new car at some track that stood for literally years. He credited this to all the driving he did with N2003. So, that might mean something - or lots of things. Maybe it just means he has natural talent, but it's interesting anyway. It's in a GPL history article in ASS.

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Fri 18 Apr 2008, 18:44.